In this episode, I interview John Will Tenney, co-founder of EmployerNomics, a nationally franchised HR brokerage. John has a stellar resume that spans many different industries: he's a former software engineer, professional musician, commercial airline pilot, and flight instructor, to name a few. Today, he consults with small to medium-sized business owners to help get them to the next level. Throughout his journey, he held onto his father's sage advice, "You Have To Work For Yourself, No One Is Ever Going To Pay You What You're Worth!"
In our interview, John shares how his father's advice and others he gained over the years have helped shape his journey. Some of the topics covered:
John's Podcast: "I'm Calling HR" is available on his YouTube Channel at John Tenney - YouTube
Websites:
In this episode, I interview John Will Tenney, co-founder of EmployerNomics, a nationally franchised HR brokerage. John has a stellar resume that spans many different industries: he's a former software engineer, professional musician, commercial airline pilot, and flight instructor, to name a few. Today, he consults with small to medium-sized business owners to help get them to the next level. Throughout his journey, he held onto his father's sage advice, "You Have To Work For Yourself, No One Is Ever Going To Pay You What You're Worth!"
In our interview, John shares how his father's advice and others he gained over the years have helped shape his journey. Some of the topics covered:
John's Podcast: "I'm Calling HR" is available on his YouTube Channel at John Tenney - YouTube
Websites:
Roy Richardson (Host) (00:03):
Hello, I'm Roy Richardson. And this is the dynamic business leaders podcast. Hello.
Roy Richardson (Host) (00:19):
Hi everyone. And thank you for joining us on the dynamic business podcast. I'm Roy Richardson, and I have a guest here today that has a bio and a career that I'm so excited too, that we're able to actually have him here and to enable him to share his experiences with you. And I'm speaking no other than John Tenney, who was from EmployerNomics, John has a, a stellar career you know, going back to starting in the eighties and software engineering and, and substance administration, he then went into becoming a professional musician. And during that time took an interest in aviation earning his pilot's license, becoming an instructor actually then going into commercial Eric air transport 95, he actually became a pilot for American Eagle and later went on to USAir Express, and flew regional jets for airlines before actually going onto Midway Airlines, where he was a first officer for the Boeing 737.
Roy Richardson (Host) (01:17):
Unfortunately, that career was cut short by the events of 9/11 and the damage that was done to the aviation industry thereafter, but John and knowing him and, and let me state this w John and I are in several little circles together here in Central Florida, and I've always known him to be somebody who's a mover and a shaker. And so it's no surprise that in, you know, that he pivoted away from aviation and then went into, you know, looking at PEOs and worker's comp and in 2016 together with his wonderful wife, Kathleen, they formed EmployerNomics, which is a nationally franchised HR outsourcing brokerage. John has grown that to the point now where he has seven franchises and he has many more in the making, but as if that's not enough, John and his wife also took on in 2011 prior to this, they formed the Orlando Runners and Riders which is a group to promote good health, safety, and public surface. And the sports of running and cycling. John has a lot of time on his hands. So even in there, you know, he's a, he's a cycling official and a Race Director for the USA Cycling Club for Team Kyle's Bike Shop. And he's extremely passionate about consulting with small to medium size business owners to help them to get to the next level. Ladies and gentlemen, John Tenney, John, welcome.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (02:32):
I feel like I should applaud. I can honestly say Roy I've given that bio to so many people to introduce me and no one has ever done it as well as you just did there. I found like I was washing like I was looking around like, who is he think he's got to have
Roy Richardson (Host) (02:50):
John and thanks for taking time today to really, you know, tell your journey and where you've been. And, you know, I got to say, you're, you're you have, you have a stellar bio. And I know that many of our readers, our viewers, I should say, listeners are going to be very excited to hear about, you know, your journey out. You know, it could be a ride. My bike,
John Will Tenney (Guest) (03:15):
If you look at it's like we were talking about beforehand, you know, someone reads that bio says, well, this guy has done a lot, but the smart person looking at anyone, because this guy ever going to figure out what he wants to be when he grows up answers. No, at an early age, I was told that a man should change his career every 10 years, at least because why, why limit yourself to one thing and get around and learn a lot? I didn't put, put this in the preview, but I want to tell you about this thing I did when I was a corporate pilot back in the nineties, what I would do is I would fly some business people or lawyers or whoever they were to a small airport like Naples or Tallahassee, you know, were just where they were just mostly corporate airplanes, you know, a single-engine, some jets, but the small chance, you know, the PRI the private jets, I think some people call them jizzies.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (04:04):
I don't know what that means. You know, the King airs and stuff. And I was sitting there and I'd get paid by the hour just to sit there and wait for them. But it was hours for dollars. You know, I realized that this isn't a way to make a fortune, because if you're just treating your own time for dollars, you're never going to get to the point where you have time. Yeah. So I liked that cashflow quadrant that Robert Kiyosaki has, you know, the IES and the company, the BI, you know, the business and investor. I said the only way to get over to that other side is finding some way to make money when I'm sleeping. So, but all these guys would come in on these fancy jets and you know what I mean? You go inside and they're luxuriously laid out.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (04:42):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And it took some guts. But I finally walked up to some people walking out of one of them. And I said, Hey, who owns this? And I was lucky, the owner was one of the people. He goes, I do why I go, I hate to bother you. But I got a question. He goes, what? And I go, how did you get here? Where you can own one of these? What, what decisions and processes did you go through a point where you could own a beautiful piece of machinery? Like, and what do you think he did? He said, come with me. We went into the pilot lounge. We sat down, you went there to get a cup of coffee. And he told me for two hours, his life story. Wow. And there were people on that you remember back in the nineties, they had those big cell phones, you know, that look like there are guys walking around, out in the lobby and they're looking in, and one of them's leaning in going, and he's like, Hey, we'll go.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (05:26):
When I say, we're going to go, all right, I'm talking to this man here. They lumped the teller story, but I listened. And I said you know what? I'm going to try this with other people. And I wish I'd written them all down. I didn't even think about it at the time, but I must've talked to a hundred, 150 different aircraft owners throughout the next say six months. And I learned a lot about a business by listening to these guys. And so I took a lot of what they said, plus what my father had told me, who was a Supreme court judge for New York. And he also owned a bunch of businesses, but the thing they always said is that you have to work for yourself. You really do. No one is ever going to pay you what you're worth. And in years I'd been doing meetings and I've asked people to stand up and tell me, is there anybody here who thinks they get paid? What they're worth? And there was one guy once he stood up, I said, really, you can pay what you're worth. He goes, yeah, I go, what do you do? I worked in the post office. I said, yeah, you probably do get paid, which is, that's your robot. So anyway, that's just a little pre-story
Roy Richardson (Host) (06:26):
That's, that's, that's you know, you, you were sharing that and how you took away all these nuggets from different people you met over time. And it took me back down memory lane on, you know, similar journeys that I've had and people I've met and, and was fortunate that they would take time out of their day, much like you're doing today to share your story and experiences with others. But you know, that, that the type of experience and the knowledge you gain from those types of interactions, that's not even something that I would say that you could place a value on it's it's you know, you, you, you, it's not something you're just walking into someplace and, and subscribe to when all of a sudden you get it. Right. I mean, these people are sharing their experiences with you and their life journeys. So, yeah. And, and I, I can tell you, even from, from myself on going back and thinking on some of the people who have been influential in my life you know, the advice that they gave me still holds true today. And I, and I, and I keep that daily. I F I followed their pattern, not try to reinvent the wheel.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (07:28):
And one of them refuses to at least talk to me. Yeah. Every single one of them that actually meant that was the owner or the guy in charge. They always took at least five or 10 minutes to sit down with me. I mean, we always sat down and he said, let me tell you my story. So I learned the first thing I learned from there was like, everybody who's successful most to tell their story, but I'm glad they did. And also they don't remember their failures. I'd ask them, what's their biggest failure. They'll go, Oh, geez. I got to think when's the last time I failed. And when they find the rumor and go, you know, I failed a lot, but I just don't remember those. Yeah. And I think that's important where you're going to fail a lot in sales, which I'm in sales, but we all are right. If you're married, I'll show you. That was at least one completed sale. Okay. So how many, how many motors do you have to get through to get a yes. So a successful salesperson is going to hear no, a lot more than the here. Yes. Same with business people. They're going to hear no, they're going to fail a lot. I mean, I've had 13 or 14 different businesses in my life. And the number of failures far exceeds the number of successes
Roy Richardson (Host) (08:34):
And it's, and it's okay to fail and learn from those. I mean, those are all mistakes and they're mistakes, but their learning experiences are what I meant to say. You know, as long as we learn from them and we move on, I mean, God knows, you know, we, my wife and I are not we're, we're now our second business here. But you know, it was not easy getting to where we were, even in the first one, not because you're in one business does not necessarily mean that you can take that template and bring it to another business and that you're going to be automatic, you know, you're automatically going to be successful. Right. You're going to run into different challenges.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (09:07):
Yeah. You learn from your mistakes and no, you don't learn better from somebody else's mistakes than you do from your own. I wish you could've. I've always told people, please feel free to learn from my mistakes, but nothing hammers home. The point, like making the mistake yourself, my first business, you know, other than my paper route, the first real business was a partnership, which Kaler don't do that. They're selling sailing accessories in upstate New York because I love sailing. Now. You've got to remember summer's beautiful in New York, especially if it hits a weekend. Okay. So the season was four or five months long. It's very difficult to support a business that only has four or five months, you know, you'd learn about things like that. It's from what I've learned, it hard, the hard way by family. Yeah.
Roy Richardson (Host) (09:56):
But so John, you have, you know, you've gone through and as you shared with us, look, you know, you failed more than you've been successful. You've learned along the way, you've, you've been able to pivot even when you know, you were facing adversity. Right. You know? Right, right, right. In its face. So, you know, how, how do you, what do you define a success?
John Will Tenney (Guest) (10:18):
That's one of my favorite questions is why I asked you to ask me that everybody defines it differently. Although I think most people agree with this. This is the definition, at least financial success. And in a way, life success is having the time, the money, and the health to do what you want to do when you want to do it. And with the people, you want to do it. And that's, it's a continuing goal. We're not there yet. I still have to work while I still want to work. I gotta admit, I, I like working. I enjoy what I do, but I don't have, sometimes I have the time. Sometimes they have the money. What I need though, is more friends to do things with me. You know, I need more people who want to be successful, like, like we are. And so I'm reaching out and trying to find people, if you've got time and money to do what you want to do, when you want to do it, Hey, let's get together and see if we can, you know, do something together.
Roy Richardson (Host) (11:08):
Nice. And then, you know, with regards to your success and your journey that you've been on in terms of getting to where you are today w what would you say is one of the biggest challenges you've had to overcome?
John Will Tenney (Guest) (11:22):
Oh, okay. There's a lot of those they, well, like, what'd you say the biggest thing is lack of knowledge. I used to think I knew everything. Now I'm going to know everything. I realize they know nothing. You, you don't, there's so much out there to learn. And when a young person thinks they know when they know this much, I think that's all there is to know about a certain niche, but then you find out, Whoa, there's a lot of things. I didn't know. Yeah. I think the biggest challenge I've had is realizing that not everyone is looking out for me. They aren't, they're looking out for them. Yeah. Everyone's favorite radio station is w I, I F M what's in it for me, for me. Yep. Yep. And I've had to realize it when someone tells me like, this is a win-win and this is great for you.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (12:11):
And this is great for me, what it means is this great for them? Yeah. It may be great for me. I've also learned that you can't be in a hurry, you know? I, I'm a faithful person and I believe that God does nothing in a hurry. Okay. If somebody jumps like you got to get in today, this is a, you know, this is a now or never ground floor opportunity. None of those ever worked. If I gotta get it, now, I, Y you know, let's see if you're still going six months from now, and guess what? None of them were. So whenever I look at a business or opportunity, I realized that you need to do your due diligence. You need to read the fine print and you need to get it in writing. And it's a sip. I'll tell you how I found this out.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (12:54):
I got into business with a guy in back in the nineties, and we had a great relationship. We were working together. It wasn't a partnership. You know, I had my own corporation, he had his, and we had a joint venture sort of thing. When he died, kids took over the business. Now those kids were nothing like he was, Oh yeah, they had their own ideas. How things should be done at, and they basically drove me out of the business. I left. Cause I, I, and I had a lot invested in it. Not only in money, but in time and time is the one thing I wish I had more. You can, you can get more money. You can't get more time. That's true. That is true. If there's an 800 number to God and where I can call them and say, Hey, 2 million bucks for another year deal, I'd be on that number.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (13:36):
Okay. But you can't there's, you know, that's why I'm riding my bike every day and try to stay healthy because it was about nine years ago today that I realized that I needed to get healthy. I was 51 years old and I was thinking 54 years old. I was thinking, this is it. I'm on the back nine. Okay. As one of my coworkers used to say, I'm on the long slide to the big sleep, 10. There's nothing I can do about it. I might as well just relax. I have to take a picture down, but I weighed 290 pounds. I was big. I was out of shape. If I walked down the street, I started breathing hard. And fortunately, one of my doctors looked at me and said, I want, he gave me a homework assignment. He said I want you to come back to me next week.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (14:14):
No charge-free visit, but I want you to have two things done. One, tell me when you're going to lose the weight now or later. And two, I want you to get around every old fat person you find and, and do your best to find out how old they are. You know, ask them what year they graduated from college or something like that because you can't just walk up and go, Hey, hold you pull the area. Well, but it shocked me. You know, I was around someone that I, I remember this one woman, she was overweight. She was gray. She looked terrible. I figured she was the sixties. And I'm talking to her for a while. And I could, it was clear that she was in her forties. It scared, scared the bejesus out of me, you know, I wouldn't make the CMX many say, okay, what am I going to do?
John Will Tenney (Guest) (14:54):
He said, well, the first thing you got to do is lose the weight. Yeah. But then you got to get your conditioning up. And that's when I started an exercise plan. And I realized that that's one of the, you know, that's one of the four things you need. I journal every day I put down, how was the day spiritually? How was the day personally? How was it business-wise? And how was it health-wise? And I do a one to 10 and maybe put a little comment about why it was a one or why it was a 10 or, you know, and I realized that you got to have the health. You know, I was asked about 10 years ago, 10 years from now, what's going to be your most valuable possession. And I jokingly put my teeth, but you know what, I've lost quite a few teeth since then.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (15:35):
It wasn't as funny as we are laughing right now. But I realize your health is your most valuable possession. You can't help other people if you're dead. Yeah. That's true. You should, we can't. And you're going to help them less if you're in a wheelchair and need to be taken care of. So that's what that leads up to. You know, why we started relating to runners and riders? I don't run anymore. I'm a retired, retired runner, but I do try to ride a bike every day, at least a half-hour just to get the cardio up. And it has helped me keep my weight down. And it's definitely helped me be a condition.
Roy Richardson (Host) (16:06):
I, I can, I can, I can relate to your story. John, because you know, and particularly in the technical industries, you know, we, we, we tend to get, you know, drawn into very long days sitting at desks, staring at screens. And yeah, I think it was back in in 2005 or six. I was probably twice the size that I am right now. And, and my, my I lost a very, very good friend to a heart attack. And the, and that really opened up my eyes. And I remember going to the doctor the next day was my wife took me in there and she said, this is it. You know, we're, we're, we're changing our lifestyle. And yeah I was I tilted the scale upwards of 360 pounds, believe it or not. Yeah. So so it's, it's, it's I feel, I feel great today and, and, and, you know, my, my daughter's vegan, my wife is vegetarian. My, my, my son and I are selected Tarion's, but
John Will Tenney (Guest) (17:09):
Don't look a pound over three 50.
Roy Richardson (Host) (17:14):
Yeah. You know, it's, it's, you're right. Dropping all that weight and focusing and, and you gotta be healthy. You're right. You know, my, and my wife, my wife still feels, there are a lot of areas where I could make some changes and I'm committed to doing so. So, you know, that's it, it keeps the mind fresh and keeps things keeps things in focus.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (17:32):
And the outlook changes too. Have you noticed, I'm not thinking, Oh, it's going to be five or six years. I think I ain't got another 20 or 30 years. Yeah. I realized I can do this for 20 or 30 more years. Yeah. I got a lot of time left. Yeah.
Roy Richardson (Host) (17:45):
And that's amazing what you're doing with, with the, with the runners there and, and that, that whole, and, and your commitment to that. You know, and how you, yeah.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (17:54):
Sorry. It isn't that much. I mean, it's only Saturday.
Roy Richardson (Host) (17:58):
Yes. But still, it's, it's something, I mean, but you've taken your personal experience and translated that into a, into a commitment to, to help others.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (18:08):
We're helping people. I mean, we do raise money for charities that are really at, and I'm, I'm kind of careful. I mean, some people don't like this, but I've met charities. I go into them, I look at their form nine nineties. I want to see how many, six-figure board of directors they have. Yeah. And really, if they've got any, they don't need my money. Yeah. We're looking for small local charities where nobody's working for them. We're really is a charity, you know, where they don't have a professional fundraising operation because I don't, to me that if you're working for a charity, well, that's not charity. That's a job. So we try to help the ones that you know are small. And I don't want to say well, it's just sort of my ethics, you know, I believe that charities should really be charity.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (18:54):
Yeah. So we have, we found several local, small charities that do great work and nobody's benefiting it from it, except the people that need to benefit from it. There was one, a big bicycle charity that had tried to get me to get involved. And I went to this guy's house on a Lake, knowing that it was two-story. It was about 6,000 square feet. Had that giant pool out, back with a kitchen on either side of the pool, out over the pool. And I said, well, what do you do for a living? And he goes, Oh, this I worked for the charity, but really how much you make he, why get to keep one-third of what I raised really? I raised $6 million last year with her. She doesn't need my money. No,
Roy Richardson (Host) (19:37):
I hear you. I hear you. Hey, you mentioned ethics just now. You know, are there any particular values or ethics that have helped you get to where you are now?
John Will Tenney (Guest) (19:44):
Okay, thank you. Yes, there are. And this is important to business people is that, if you want to look at ethics as something moral, you can, but you can also look at it as good business. If you were ripping people off or scanning people, you're not going to last long. And that's true. This is a very small world that it's round. Okay. And it's true. So for the longterm, if you're in a business for the long-term, you've got to follow the golden rule. You have to treat people the way you want to be treated, doing others. Right. So I've always, I've always said, I've always been honest. Although sometimes I tried to act like I knew more than I did, and I got lucky people still stuck with me anyway. Cause they thought, well, maybe he'll learn. But that was a mistake. I realized that when I first got into the business, I'm in now, I walked around acting like I knew something and I knew nothing.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (20:34):
You know, I was, I went from an airplane cockpit to auditing these multi-million dollar companies on workers' comp. And they were called PEOs. And I didn't even know how to spell PEO. Yeah. And I tried to act like I knew what I was doing. And I realized now that I had overcome that in later years, people would say to me, you know, you've come a long way. You really have learned about your business, but well, you knew nothing in the beginning, Randy, you were kind of a joke. I don't want to be kind of a joke. So I, my, my ethics and my values are, think long-term, what's best for your client. If you worry about doing what's best for your client, you will become a trusted advisor and they'll let other people know, they'll tell people, you know, this guy didn't do what was best for him. He did what was best for me that gets around. Yeah. And then like, and you and I have found out, it keeps us pretty busy. Doesn't it? Yes, it does.
Roy Richardson (Host) (21:29):
Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Yes, it definitely does. And, and, you know, it's I'm, I'm glad you shared that with, with, with everyone, particularly with, with regards to trust and looking at the long-term part of things, because a lot of times, and, and we've, I think we've all met people within, within our realms and over our business career, who you can clearly see as they're coming down the pipe, this is a short-term person. Their way of thinking is very short-term there. And it's you know, and, and if this doesn't work out, they'll try something else and they come back with a different flag, but it's never, ever about really building that solid relationship and establishing themselves as a trusted advisor to their clients. You know? So I'm, I'm happy that we are we're in similar businesses. Although, we look at things a little differently. You, protect employers from employees. I protect employees or business owners from hackers, but it's, it's really within the same realm. And in our line of work, it's extremely important to have that open line of communication. Trust is extremely important. And then, of course, you know, being respected or actually acknowledged by our clients as a trusted advisor,
John Will Tenney (Guest) (22:46):
I would imagine that you and I both faced the same challenge when we sit down with a prospective client I'll give you an example, just a theoretical example. I don't really see myself as a broker or a, you know, HR person. I'm a travel agent. I think their business from point a to point B. Okay. Yeah. Which one do you think they are? Is the easiest for them to describe point a to point B?
Roy Richardson (Host) (23:12):
I believe that it probably may be easier for them to describe where they want to be.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (23:18):
Right. Yeah. Finding out where they actually are. In other words, where things are broken out, I'm sure this is the same with you around. Oh yeah. We got all that covered until they trust you. They don't really tell you like, well, you know, we don't really do nightly backups. We just say we do yes. Or with us as a, Oh no, we, we, we really don't have workers comp. We use exemptions, you know, our, our, all of our employees are on 10 99. I'm sure we run into that when you get to that level of trust before they, because let's face it. Most people, their business is their baby is their youngest child or their oldest child. And nobody wants to tell you their baby's ugly. So that's, that's where you have to get trust. Yeah. Before they'll share with you, this is really where I'm vulnerable. And then that's the same with you. This is where we're vulnerable. And I bet you, I bet with you just like, as with me, it's probably the third or fourth thing they bring up, that's really the problem.
Roy Richardson (Host) (24:13):
Yeah. And, and some, and sometimes, sometimes they don't, you know, they don't understand how vulnerable they are, you know, that there are, there are definitely those, those scenarios, but nine out of 10 times, they think they're well buttoned up, or they're doing certain things that are getting done by that they believe will fly under the radar. But in fact, all it's doing is, is really opening up that, you know, that risk factor there. Right. Exactly. You know,
John Will Tenney (Guest) (24:39):
We're fine with ADP. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to mention ADP. I always say I said it, wasn't going to mention ADP. I'm just picking on ADP because they've been annoying me lately, but they're actually a good company. And they're a very good solution for a lot of people. I know who I can pick up. I will pick that. And QuickBooks just for a little bit, QuickBooks is a great piece of accounting. Software is really good for managing your books for your accounting, for helping you deal with your CPA. What they are not good for is payroll. And this is why, because it's all in your QuickBooks file. So if the IRS decides to audit you, unless you have somehow had somebody break your payroll into a separate file. Oh yeah. They're going without, as well. They look at the whole thing and they look at the last six years, we had an ex-client of ours going back to QuickBooks and they got audited.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (25:29):
And they went through their six years returns, not just our payroll, but all their corporate returns and they found several issues, and it was a very complicated and quite expensive audit. So if you use QuickBooks, that's great that I know QuickBooks makes money on payroll, but just remember that if you get audited, QuickBooks, doesn't come to the audit with you. They just send a note saying, Hey, we told them the rules, the rules are on the website. We just processed the numbers they gave us or words to that effect. It's not like if you had a CPA, who's going to sit there with you, or a payroll company like ADP or Paychex who will send a representative at least to be with you. Or if you're a PEO and you'll never get audited because it's not your payroll anymore. It's theirs. So that's another, remember we were talking about risk management. Yup. Yup, yup. Yup. That's one of the ways to transfer the risk and make it somebody else's problem. So that's why I like to tell people that if you're using QuickBooks, first of all, yes, it's cheap. But think back to the last time you paid the lowest price for something, and it ended up costing you more in the long run, has that ever happened to you?
Roy Richardson (Host) (26:30):
Oh yeah.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (26:32):
Yeah. I mean everybody. Yeah.
Roy Richardson (Host) (26:34):
So how does, how does your company help out in a scenario like that, John?
John Will Tenney (Guest) (26:39):
Well, okay. Sometimes we don't. I would say that if I sit down with someone's company, you know, three or four times out of five, we do nothing for them. For various reasons. One they're already covered too. They don't want to admit they got a problem. That's the most common or three there they're beyond our help. The horse has already left the barn gate, close the barn door. The horse is already gone. So, but let's just say, it's one of those where we can help them. And they realize it about three-quarters of the time. We placed them when the PEO who becomes the employer of record for their employees. And this is probably getting up to where I should show you how we do that because we actually have this pretty slick piece of software that is you're with us. And I'm going to thank you for allowing sharing.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (27:27):
It's going to ask me a little note here. Yes. I gave you an update. Okay. So this is our matchmaker software and it has all of our sort of a CRM tool. But what I really wanna show you is that we have over 400 companies in here that we can reference. This is my, I have 327 PEOs authorized right here. Okay. These are the 327 that I trust, or at least that hasn't broken my trust yet. I don't know them all. But as soon as someone breaks my trust, I take them out. Yeah. And then we have payroll companies, actually, ADP and Paychex are both in here. There's a bunch of others. And then we have these staffing firms like Nicole's company, you know? Yep, yep. You're out of here yet, but we're going to get her in here. So we have our, our markets and then we take someone who was, we do an analysis of a client say, let's look at this.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (28:22):
Oh, here's a company in California. I was working with them, this is their annual payroll. Okay. We fill out if you're on match.com, consider this their profile. Okay. Gotcha. Fill out this profile, which has a number of filters. Okay. Shows what they're looking for in HR has a description of their business, shows some things about workers' comp some insurance questions and then some payroll numbers and then some benefits questions, and then some little things about payroll and then some explanations. And then we also have the ability to upload other documents that the agent might send along. This one, we happen to be working with property and casualty agents. So he had a lot of information he could upload to including claims history. So then, so then we have that, which is our, our dating profile. If you will, then that gets put through the system out.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (29:18):
It gets sent out to all those companies that were on my list that matched the filters. Okay. So not all of them. And it gets to send to those that say, okay, yeah, we work. We work in that state. We like that kind of work. They meet our minimums, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Then they see an email that has just basic information about the company, without names, without a phone, without contact. And they have to click a button, whether we want to know more. And as soon as they click that button an agreement pops up or they say, if we work with this client, we're going to work with you for the next, I don't know how long it is. I think it's six months. Okay. So for the next six months, they're going to work with us. If they work with that client and by working with us means to pay us a commission.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (30:00):
Right. Right. Okay. So then once they accept that, then they start sending us quotes and we have the pricing on the quotes and we can look at each quote individually if we want some of them to start out with a description of the PEO, this is the Kimberly group. They're right here in Orlando. They're down in orange and who, they're very good people. We use them a lot. They do it, they don't do the, they're not perfect. But what I like about them is when they make a mistake, they fix it right away and that's important. And that's what matters. They get right on it. If there was a mistake and then here's their, their prices. Here's the overall price for the year. Plus here's the minimum. So they're going to pay if they run no payroll at all, they're paying that. There's a minimum. And then there are other things like there's a deductible for workers' comp.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (30:46):
There's a deductible for Eli, which is employment practices, liability, and a bunch of about, you know, minimum fee. There's no setup fee, which is nice. No, no side costs zero and it's approved. Okay. So then we can, once we decide that that's what we want the client to see, we send it to them and we only send the one, I don't turn it into a beauty contest. I don't send, I don't do what they call spreadsheeting. I don't send them for quotes. And then they pick the cheapest. So you're vetting. So in other words, I think the whole process, and then selecting the, who feel works best for the customer based on your criteria, et cetera. And present that, that final let's call it a winner. First vetting is done by the filters. Gotcha. Right. So we find somebody that is technically compatible. And then when we get the multiple quotes, then we do our research and we actually talked to like the people who sent us the quotes and say, Hey, they want this, this, this and that.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (31:42):
Can you do that? Yeah. Okay. Then we find the one that makes the best sense, not the best price, but I find out their budget first. How much do you want to spend? What do you want to spend? And you can see that there's a lot of going back to here. This is our history for what's happening, how we talk to each one and you know, we keep a history on each client so we can keep track of what was done. And in case there's a dispute later, we can pull it up. Well, look right here. This is what you said. You send this in an email and I also have this little thing. You'll appreciate this. You, you know what did acumen they have is right? Yup. Yup. Yup. Okay. That's one point. What does that 16 terabytes? Okay. And it is, it is supposedly backed up every night, but I can admit I haven't verified it, but I keep all documents and emails I get from the client and the PEO on that QA and on the cloud backup.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (32:35):
So that's kind of how our system works. I just wanted to show you that. Nice. So what we, what we tried to do, Roy is to develop a combination, but we're trying to automate it as much of it as possible because it's like we sell franchises and we want them to just plug and play. Well, we still got to teach them, how do you do the final vetting? There's still that last 10% that has to be done by hand. And I tell you, I'm never going to be a field. I'm never going to be comfortable with doing a hundred percent of it automated. I still believe you gotta have, the more things are getting automated. And the more things are the internet. I think the personal touch is more important than ever.
Roy Richardson (Host) (33:10):
That's true. That is. I mean, you're, you're absolutely right on that. And you know, look, every automation is man-made right. It's, it's, it's bound to fail. I mean, last week there were, there were outages on, on Microsoft's M365 platform and, and you know, our phones lit up because our customers, we have customers on there and, and of course, you know, it's, well, this is not supposed to fail, but yes, you know, there's that, you know, in our industry, we call it to the five nines, right? It's 99.999% that it will be up, but you're going to have that, you know, 0.001%, that it's down. And then of course we will.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (33:44):
We figured out the clients, at least one of them was going to have a problem. There you go. There you go. There you go.
Roy Richardson (Host) (33:49):
But that's part, that's very impressive. What you, what you've put together there. John and I see
John Will Tenney (Guest) (33:56):
We've had a lot of help with that. That's been developing, we've been developing that with our partners, with the EO Depot, who we're working with, working in that. Well, they've been working on it for 25 years, but the last five years we've been giving them input into what we think should be good and what shouldn't. And they've been, you know, what really impresses me about them is I was talking to the guy who's in charge, Tim one night, nine 30 at night. And I said, you know, it'd be really good if we could put this feature and he goes, give me five minutes, I'll call you back. He called me five minutes, take a look at it. Now he put it in. That's nice. It said, who did you do that? He goes, no, I called him my it guy. Didn't he do it? He goes, you called your it guy at 9:30 at night. And he goes, I figured it's 9:30. I'm working. He can get off the couch, you know, but that's what impresses me is if we have a problem with the software, they, their response is phenomenal. You know, that's, we're really happy with our relationship with them, you know, with ours. Well, it's a contractual relationship, obviously. We're, you know, that's our software as well.
Roy Richardson (Host) (34:56):
And, and that's important, you know, when, when, when I own my telecom company and we were looking for and this actually takes me back, we were looking for a what is called a, you know, a subscriber management system, a billing platform and we've vetted many different companies looking around to see who, you know, is the right fit, who has the bells and whistles we're looking for, et cetera. We found a firm out of Canada that we, who we ended up going with, and I never, ever had to go back and actually say, you know what? That was a bad mistake because it ended up being the best ever. It was a similar scenario to what you have. It became a partnership more than a client vendor-type relationship. And we were feeding into them, the, our requests, which they were turning around, which was improving their processes and their software. And they could go out and sell it as new features. And so we got a great deal on, you know, being the think tank. But the nice thing is our entire customizations. If we wanted over the course of 10 years you know, we, we, we didn't have to wait for, you know, a wishlist of, you know, two, three, four months for things to happen.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (35:59):
One of the other nice things we've got about this is that since we've been so instrumental in building the system to where it is today, if I showed you what it looked like five years ago, you would laugh. It looked like it was written on an MS-DOS computer in the eighties. I mean, it was, it was cheesy. We made it look, I mean, but it still was functional, but we made it look good and go quickly. And it's efficient to the point now where if you want to get into that software, you got to go through us. There are only five of us authorized to put people in there. And employer Nomics is the most active of them right now. And that's, that's how much he trusts us. And like, and that's back to the ethics thing because I always told them what's best for both of us in the long run. And I meant it because if I can do something that's good for him and his wife and his team, you know, they've got 20 people on staff over there that will answer us and we can text them anytime. And they will know where turn to tax says, you know, what's the best for you. This was the best for us. What's best for you. But now they're asking me, what can we do for you? They send these bottles of burden, which I would have right now, but
Roy Richardson (Host) (37:09):
To do with this stay-at-home stuff, right?
John Will Tenney (Guest) (37:13):
No, I just, you know what? I give them away because I do like burden, but yeah, if I've got a client who's done something exceptional, I'll go take one of the Bibles. He sends me and gives it to them. Really. I shouldn't do that because now I'm out of Berlin. I got to let them know that I need it. I need another bottle of Buffalo trace,
Roy Richardson (Host) (37:31):
But that's, that's, that's impressive. And, and, you know, look, look, you, you shared a few good nuggets here. First of all, you know, as ethics and building that, that line of trust and always do onto others as you speck expect others to do onto you. And as a result of that, you've been able to really, you know, nurture this relationship to a point where it's a mutual, mutual, trusting relationship, right? So I got to ask you, and this is, this is always a nugget that I, I like to pass on to, to business owners out there. If there's something you could teach new business owners, you know, in terms of one or two things that, that they should remember when they're starting their business, things that have helped you along the way. What, what would be like one of the, one of the two key nuggets besides the ones you shared already,
John Will Tenney (Guest) (38:15):
You got, you got hundreds of them, but let me pick two that we haven't gone into. First of all, is don't put your heart on your sleeve. People are going to make business decisions, which are not in your best interest, and you may think they're doing it to screw you. They're not they're doing it because they think it's the best thing for them. Yeah. This is another lesson from my dad. The Supreme court judge he'd be sitting out and he told me, he said every single criminal that was in front of me, except the insane ones. But he said every single, non-psychotic criminal I had in front of me at the time they were committing the crime, they not only thought it was the best thing for them. They thought it was the best thing for the world. Now, upon reflection, they realized they made a mistake.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (39:00):
So when you're dealing with somebody and they do something that seems like a hostile act, you have to remember, they're only doing what they think is best for everyone. So do not take it personally. That's what I would say is keep, you know, keep us a thick skin for business because sometimes people will do things that you think, you know, well, why are they doing that? That's the dumbest thing ever. Well, they don't think so. Always remember that everybody thinks what they're doing is the right thing and try to see it from their side. Okay. And so the other one that comes from that is that always give them the benefit of the doubt and say that like, Hey, maybe we're not a good match right now. So set a time where you can talk to them later and say six months, a year, five years, when should we talk again?
John Will Tenney (Guest) (39:48):
And believe it or not. I mean, especially, I don't know how it is in your industry, but in my industry enemies from 10 years ago, our allies now. Oh yeah. Yeah. So it's really because people, I'm not going to say leverage to change their spots cause they don't, but situation changes and people learn, people do learn. So those are the two things I would give up. Is it, you know, what, how to summarize that one, remember everybody has reasons for what they do and they aren't involved in being mean to you. That's not what they're trying to do. They're doing what's best for them. And two is don't burn the bridge, keep the bridge up and, you know, try to meet someone halfway on the bridge, every few, you know, few months, few years or whatever, from time to time,
Roy Richardson (Host) (40:32):
I, I learned that you know, back in the telecom industry particularly, you know, you need to have a working relationship with every other operator out there because no matter how good your network is, there will be a day when you have a critical scenario on your hand and you're gonna, you're gonna need to rely on someone else's network to get you out of it. And, and, and so, you know, we always went from the standpoint or enemy or not, you know, a competitor or not, we're, we're going to help you because there's going to be a day where we know where we're going. We're going to have to, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna need to have, we're going to need to cash in on that help.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (41:08):
So to that to Roy is it's more important to be a friend than to be. Right? Yeah. That's true. Because I've had people come back to me and say, you know, we made a mistake. I know we all make mistakes. How can we fix it out? Forget that. I know that was a mistake. So what, what moving forward? What do we do? I don't, I don't want to point any fingers. Don't try to place blame on anything. Never do that. I told you so. Yeah, unless you do it as a joke because I will do that. Hey, I told you you're buying drinks or you're buying lunch next time we meet. Cause I was right, right. I, you know, just as a joke and that's going to be good, I try to minimize it,
Roy Richardson (Host) (41:44):
Minimize that. Yeah. Don't, don't rub it. Don't rub that salt in that wound.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (41:48):
Exactly. Cause that everybody makes mistakes. And if you give people a chance and, and, and don't, you know, there's a book out there called I'm. Okay. You're okay. I don't know if you've seen that, but you always want to be like not okay. Cause then not trying to pull you up, don't be up here. Cause then they're going to try to pull you now down. That's true. That's true. I digress. No, no, no. You're good. You're good. You're good.
Roy Richardson (Host) (42:13):
Go back here on small businesses and, and you know, you, and we've had discussions and I, and I, and I know that you, you know, you, you really think that's, you know, small businesses as a foundation of freedom this country. Why is that?
John Will Tenney (Guest) (42:26):
Because it's the truth, but you want to know why. Okay. And this is, this is from my own personal experience in the last, you know, year or two that I've been in business, you know, w this isn't our first rodeo, right? Yeah. I've been in situations where you're dealing with small businesses and I deal with large businesses and I haven't developed a distrust for any company. That's got, say more than a hundred employees. And the reason is, is one thing, once they start achieving a certain size, the leadership gets compartmentalized. Yeah. It's no longer one guy. You know, the buck doesn't stop here. The buck stops with the board or the shareholders or something. And so there's an, and everyone will just sit there and go, well, I'm glad that's not my responsibility. And they'll make decisions which are, are harmful, but it's not there, you know, not my circus, not my monkey, something like that.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (43:23):
They're going to pass it off. Whereas a small business, you think back to the turn of the 18th and 19th century back in 1900 or was it the 19th or the 20th, I get those mixed up around 1990% of Americans own their own business. You had the, you know, the drugstore guy, you had the general store, you had, you know, the barbershop or whatever the Samoan, you know, or whatever, the guy that made the doors swing on the song, you know, it was the carpenter, you know, there, everybody had their own business and 2000, it was reversed. 90% of the people worked for a big company now. And now, remember at the 19th century or 1900, what would the tallest business, what were the tallest buildings in the city? Think of the steeples, right? Yup. Yup. The churches in 2000, what are the tallest buildings in the city? The banks
Speaker 4 (44:14):
See where the smoke is swimming
John Will Tenney (Guest) (44:18):
And R and D. And I don't think people are inherently evil. I don't, but I think that big groups of big companies kind of let evil slip by because they don't feel it's their responsibility. So I think in order for us to maintain freedom, we need to have strong small businesses in this country. And I don't want to get political. I'm just going to say, but on that basis, my political leanings are based strongly on that, on being in favor of small business. Good, good, nice. That's it. Let's not go any further because you know where that's going to go.
Roy Richardson (Host) (44:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's leave that out of there. Well, I got to ask you and, and, and, and, and, and I got, I got one or two more questions here, but you know, I, I always like to throw a little wrinkle in the mix here. So, John, you've been successful. You've had a career here spanning from, you know, as I said, starting in that software engineering, you're dabbled in music aviation. Now you're doing, you know, a PEO you're involved with the runners and different things like that. You've hit your head a couple of times. You've stumbled. You fell off the bike. You've gotten back up. If you had an opportunity
John Will Tenney (Guest) (45:27):
To go from the last time I said,
Roy Richardson (Host) (45:29):
There you go, you got the living proof to go with it also. Right. So if you had an opportunity to put a board together of three people living or dead, Oh, that, that, that would actually, you know, be your advisors. Who would they be and why?
John Will Tenney (Guest) (45:43):
Believe it or not, there's they probably wouldn't be famous. People probably wouldn't be people you've heard of. But certainly, my father would be, he was a huge influence in my life. My wife. Yeah. Because she will tell you that I'm smarter than her, but that's a lie. She's actually much smarter than me. I'm quicker. Okay. But she can sit there and figure things out and she'll come back and go, you know, that guy's lying and she's right. Yeah. In the end, she's always right. And if I had to take one famous person, I probably picked somebody, you know, and this, I know this is probably, this is a little political, it's a little controversial, but I would love to have Donald Trump's business advice. Sometimes I'm not saying I would take it because we actually did business with Trump enterprises in Sanibel, back in the nineties, we were building houses and their construction company and the local construction companies were terrible. I mean, if you could get them to show up and do work, they would bill you for it. Outrageously. And my dad was alive at the time. He and I were, were getting frustrated. And as a judge in New York, he had a very special relationship with Fred Trump. Because as you know, Fred was a slumlord who was in my dad's courtroom, a lot being sued when he got to know him. In fact, I had lunch one day with my dad and Fred Trump. And I'm the brother that just died.
Roy Richardson (Host) (47:10):
Yeah. I, I don't remember his name, but I okay.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (47:14):
He was my age, maybe a year or two older. Okay. So I'm in my twenties and I'm having lunch with Fred Trump. Who's Donald Trump's father. And that's how I knew him. And then his brother who ran Trump enterprises at that time in Florida. And later on, when we were having trouble with our, we hired them to come in and finish our construction. Now they are ruthless. Okay. But they tell you that right up front, Hey, we're worthless. You know, if you don't pay us, we're coming in and taking all our materials money. Okay. Or are we just gonna lean your property and we'll own it, but they tell you that it's right upfront. They come right at you. They're not sneaking around behind you. You know, they're direct, they're honest and they're ruthless, but they were on time, under budget, and to spec.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (47:59):
And we got out of that, that development without losing our shirts. And I attribute a lot of the success to those business principles, you know, is, is he the most ethical person in the world? I don't know, but I know that his businesses are successful when they need to be successful. And when it's advantageous not to be successful, that's what, you know, he said, four companies filed bankruptcy, but all of those were strategic defaults to get away from venture capitalists. We're trying to take all this money. And I've gone in recently. My business has gotten to the point where now venture capitalists tried to come in and take my business. And suddenly I see, wow. Now I know what, he's what he dealt with. And he's got a thick skin, you know, that to put up with, he's put up with, I'm sorry, we got political, but it wouldn't be my dad, my wife and, and somebody like Donald Trump, maybe not him, but somebody who's been through that business, who's been in the rough and tumble world with corporate.
Roy Richardson (Host) (48:54):
Well, you know, somebody asked me this same question and you and I w w w we answered at least one of those correctly. Not that they're, they're incorrect. Sorry, let me go back
John Will Tenney (Guest) (49:05):
Here. It was great graded Roy.
Roy Richardson (Host) (49:08):
No, but somebody asked me that question once. And I said, you know, who would you put there? And I, and I, I named off a bunch of people and I said, Oh yes. And my wife. And I said, because the same thing, she's, you know, she's, she's the smarts. But secondly, I want to make sure I'm not sleeping in the doghouse the night. So she went through,
John Will Tenney (Guest) (49:25):
I know that, that I'm not worried about that. Cause she, fortunately, you know, we have that relationship where, I mean, I got a unicorn, you know, she's, she's very low maintenance. She's, she's beautiful. She's intelligent. She gets along, everybody loves her, you know, but she's also just a really good judge of character and a really good judge of people. And I've learned that I do not compliment each other so well, our success means, she says, she tells me, I trust people too much. And I do, because I trust people until you screw me, then I don't trust you. Yeah. And she says, why don't you stop trusting the ones that are obviously going to screw you before they do? And I said, well if I can tell that she goes, I'll figure that out for you. And you know what? She's been pretty much dead on. So
Roy Richardson (Host) (50:08):
She sounds exactly like my wife we'll have to have them meet one day because they'll probably, they'll probably exchange notes and say that we're very similar.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (50:16):
We're up for dinner. There's no.
Roy Richardson (Host) (50:19):
Awesome. Awesome. So let's, let's round it up here with one final question here, John, and, and, and this is one you throw out here at me, so I'm going to ask it curiously. I'm curious to know what you're, what you're going to say. So, have you given thought to what you would want to be written on your tombstone set at your funeral or remembered about you? Oh, I think we all have,
John Will Tenney (Guest) (50:43):
Right. I mean, especially once you get past 60 when you know that, you know, that's like Jim Morrison said, no one here gets out of life.
Speaker 5 (50:50):
Right. But
John Will Tenney (Guest) (50:53):
I want to leave a dent in history. You know, I want to, I don't want to be, have three generations to go in and not remember me. You know, I don't know if I'm going to get a statue. I tried to start a city out here in East Orlando. And I told them the whole time, no, I don't want to be mayor. I don't want any money. I just want a statue that says, this guy tried and founded the city. And they laughed at me. And I said, why are you laughing at that? I said, who's going to remember you a hundred years from now. So I guess I want something sort of like that. If you see this thing up above me here. Yeah. This is the Florida one-hour record holder for the Velodrome. I hold the one-hour record for the Velodrome in Florida.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (51:34):
Oh, nice. You know, before you start tuning up, it doesn't mean that much. I'm the only one who has completed one hour on the velodrome because it's the most boring thing you can do is go round in circles for an hour. It's very boring. There are other people that have tried it, but have had weather problems because the only velodrome in Florida has, is outdoors or they've had mechanical problems and broke down, but I've held that for three years. So, and that's always, I'm always going to be down there on Wikipedia or whatever as the inaugural holder of the Florida record. So I guess that's my dented history. So that's my ego satisfied. Now. I want to what people I want, I guess it's still ego. What do you want people to remember you for? I want to be remembered as somebody who wasn't afraid to try something who went out and live life to its fullest. And I don't know if this is an R-rated or PG-rated show. Wait, is the S-word Okay? Let's keep it up. Shoot him. Right. He didn't take stuff from anybody.
Speaker 5 (52:31):
Yeah. Awesome. Awesome.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (52:36):
And separate himself. How about that? He stood up for himself. Awesome.
Roy Richardson (Host) (52:39):
Well, John, you know, it's, it's, it's been, it's been great spending time here with you hearing your journey and, you know all, that you've gone through and the great nuggets that you have shared with us. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. And you know, we'll love to come back in a few months and check-in with you and have you back so that we can continue. We probably could go on for another hour, but we'll keep that for some time in the future.
John Will Tenney (Guest) (53:10):
You know, I do want to thank you for something Roy. I've been interviewing people now for a couple of years. You're the first one to interview me. And now I know it's like to be on the other side of the microphone. This is going to change the way I interview other people and you've taught me. So I want to thank you for the lesson. Okay. Thank
Roy Richardson (Host) (53:26):
You. Thank you, John. And honestly, I mean, sincerely, thank you. It was, it was truly an honor. I enjoyed it. This was great. You know, sometimes when you, when you're interviewing people, you need to really prep. And, and, and, you know, is it going to be a good fit? Is it going to, you know, are you going to be able to wrap with the person and back and forth, but with you, it was very, very natural. So, so thank you for the opportunity. And I look forward to us catching up here shortly, where we're going to see each other in the CEO Leadership Forums and everything else that we're in, but you're coming up. You're going to be on my show pretty soon, right? Yes, I will. Yes, I will.
Roy Richardson (Host) (54:04):
Thanks for the invitation. I will. I definitely will. HR on Tuesdays. I want you on, I got a few open dates still left in October, so let's get together. Sounds good. Sounds good, John. Thank you very, very much. As always folks, thank you very much for joining us on this episode here. As we said, this podcast is really about you. If you are a business in the Central Florida area or anywhere else in the U S and you want to get your story out there, you know, click on the link below, drop us a line, we'll get back to you and until then stay safe and keep crushing
Roy Richardson (Host) (54:37):
It. Hi,
Roy Richardson (Host) (54:39):
I'm Roy Richardson, host of the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast. Are you a business owner or a leader of a successful business? If yes, we'd love to have you as a guest on our podcast. Our goal is simple. We provide a platform for leaders to share their experiences, to benefit others. We want to hear your story, how you got started, the challenges you faced along the way, and your passion today. If this sounds like you, if you know someone who fits the criteria, then be sure to visit our website@dynbizzpodcastdotaurora-andfulltech.com. That's D Y N B I Z, podcast dot Aurora, hyphen infotech.com. Also, don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and click the notification bell to be notified when our next podcast video is live. Or if you rather listen to us during your car ride, you can also follow us on your favorite audio channel using the corresponding links below. Thanks. And once again,
Roy Richardson (Host) (55:35):
Crushing it.